Legislature(2011 - 2012)HOUSE FINANCE 519

02/21/2012 12:00 PM House FISCAL POLICY


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Audio Topic
12:05:36 PM Start
12:05:51 PM Rfp Process
12:45:48 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ RFP Process TELECONFERENCED
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
            HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISCAL POLICY                                                                          
                       February 21, 2012                                                                                        
                           12:05 p.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Anna Fairclough, Chair                                                                                           
Representative Alan Austerman                                                                                                   
Representative Bob Herron                                                                                                       
Representative Lance Pruitt                                                                                                     
Representative Tammie Wilson                                                                                                    
Representative Scott Kawasaki                                                                                                   
Representative Chris Tuck                                                                                                       
Representative Craig Johnson (alternate)                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
Representative Bill Thomas                                                                                                      
Representative Mike Chenault                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
RFP PROCESS                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
LAURA PIERRE, Staff                                                                                                             
Representative Anna Fairclough                                                                                                  
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  explained the RFP process, specifically RFP                                                              
540, "Public Policy and Management Consultant."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
TINA STRONG, Procurement Officer                                                                                                
Supply                                                                                                                          
Legislative Administrative Services                                                                                             
Legislative Affairs Agency                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  during  discussion  on the  RFP                                                             
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
DOUG GARDNER, Director                                                                                                          
Office of the Director                                                                                                          
Legislative Legal and Research Services                                                                                         
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified during  discussion of  the rules                                                             
for committee meetings.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
12:05:36 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ANNA  FAIRCLOUGH called  the  House  Special Committee  on                                                             
Fiscal Policy  meeting to  order at  12:05 p.m.   Representatives                                                               
Fairclough, Johnson, Tuck, T. Wilson,  and Austerman were present                                                               
at  the  call to  order.    Representatives Pruitt,  Herron,  and                                                               
Kawasaki  arrived  as the  meeting  was  in  progress.   Also  in                                                               
attendance were Representatives Thomas and Chenault.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
^RFP Process                                                                                                                    
                          RFP Process                                                                                       
                                                                                                                              
CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH announced that the  only order of business would                                                               
be a discussion about the RFP process.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
12:05:51 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
LAURA  PIERRE,  Staff,  Representative  Anna  Fairclough,  Alaska                                                               
State  Legislature,  reported  that,  in  July  2011,  the  House                                                               
Special  Committee on  Fiscal Policy  (HFPY) brought  forward RFP                                                               
540,  "Public Policy  and Management  Consultant,"  to allow  the                                                               
public  to better  understand the  gathering of  state government                                                               
revenues and its  distribution to local governments.   She shared                                                               
that  RFP  540  requested  the  bidding  consultants  to  provide                                                               
current and historical information to  the public, to include the                                                               
sources and dispersal of state  revenue, to suggest a process for                                                               
the development of  a local budget, and to  recommend a procedure                                                               
to  pursue appropriations  from the  legislature for  funding the                                                               
budget.   She  listed the  five requested  topics:   identify key                                                               
individuals  and sources  in both  the legislature  and executive                                                               
branch of state  government for the development of  a current and                                                               
historical perspective  about state revenue; create  a library of                                                               
policy-neutral  documents  that  include current  and  historical                                                               
information on  state revenue  and spending;  develop a  web site                                                               
and publish this library on  the site; prepare a presentation for                                                               
public  meetings which  summarized  the process;  and, prepare  a                                                               
survey to gauge public understanding of state government.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
12:07:34 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH confirmed that she  had recently granted a free-                                                               
lance reporter  an interview  regarding allegations  being raised                                                               
about  the RFP  process.   She  directed attention  to the  three                                                               
letters  her office  had received  questioning  the openness  and                                                               
fairness of the process for RFP  540.  She established that Joyce                                                               
Anderson  [Ethics Committee  Administrator,  Select Committee  on                                                               
Legislative Ethics]  and the  leadership of  the Alaska  House of                                                               
Representatives were  copied on  each letter, with  her response.                                                               
She denied  any contact with  the intent of influence  toward the                                                               
questions raised  in the letters.   She declared  her acceptance,                                                               
as  the  Chair   of  HFPY,  for  "full   responsibility  for  the                                                               
notification of meetings and the  process that we followed."  She                                                               
stated  that  she  had  sought   guidance  from  the  procurement                                                               
officers and  legal counsel after  receiving the first  letter on                                                               
January 25,  2012.   She declared that  two distinct  issues were                                                               
now necessary for discussion:  (1)  had there been a violation of                                                               
the open meeting  statute and, (2) had there been  a fair process                                                               
offering  for RFP  540.   She  acknowledged  that all  discussion                                                               
would be  "on the record" but  that, in the event  a question was                                                               
raised "that  would create an unfair  or a harmful event  for the                                                               
awardee  of this  contract,  we'll need  to  move into  Executive                                                               
Session."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
12:09:55 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. PIERRE, in  response to Chair Fairclough,  reported that HFPY                                                               
had conducted four meetings, the  first [April 21, 2011] being an                                                               
organizational   meeting  to   discuss  the   direction  of   the                                                               
committee.    She  observed  that  she  had  then  contacted  the                                                               
procurement   staff  for   guidance  in   writing  an   RFP,  and                                                               
Legislative  Legal and  Research Services  for guidance  with the                                                               
technicality and legality to the  RFP process.  She reported that                                                               
when she had  asked about the necessity for public  notice of the                                                               
committee meetings,  the response  had been  that notice  was not                                                               
necessary   as  these   committee  meetings   were  "confidential                                                               
meetings and specifically on an RFP."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
12:11:32 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  PIERRE directed  attention to  the July  11, 2011  committee                                                               
meeting, featuring  discussion for the language  and direction of                                                               
the RFP.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
12:11:45 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  PIERRE referred  to  the July  27,  2011 committee  meeting,                                                               
which had  included a representative  from Legislative  Legal and                                                               
Research  Services, as  well  as the  Procurement  Officer.   She                                                               
established that the language of RFP 540 had been "fine-tuned."                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
12:12:02 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  PIERRE reported  on  the October  26,  2011 meeting,  during                                                               
which RFP 540  was evaluated, scored, and awarded  to the winning                                                               
contractor.   She reiterated  that a  letter received  in January                                                               
2012  had  alleged  possible  violations,  and  that  the  Ethics                                                               
Committee Administrator had been contacted.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
12:12:46 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH asked  if the  HFPY committee  members had  any                                                               
questions about  the time  frame.  She  reminded that  during the                                                               
initial HFPY meeting, she had  asked committee members to provide                                                               
a definition for  deficit spending.  She called  attention to the                                                               
July 11  meeting, at  which time each  committee member  had been                                                               
given a fiscal  policy binder containing the  previous two years'                                                               
recommendations by  the former fiscal policy  working group, with                                                               
directions  to  its  website.    She listed  some  of  the  other                                                               
documents on that website.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
12:14:21 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. PIERRE relayed that Representative  Doogan had initially been                                                               
a  HFPY  committee member,  but  that  health issues  during  the                                                               
interim had required he be replaced by Representative Kawasaki.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH asked  if there  were any  questions about  the                                                               
composition of the committee.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
12:14:55 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK,  referencing  the first  committee  meeting                                                               
[April 11,  2001], asked  if it was  allowable to  publicly speak                                                               
about  that  meeting, as  the  committee  had been  in  executive                                                               
session.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
12:15:30 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH clarified  that, as  the first  meeting was  an                                                               
organizational  meeting,  anything  from that  meeting  could  be                                                               
discussed.   She pointed out that  none of the meetings  had been                                                               
in executive session, but were, instead, confidential meetings.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
12:15:59 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK  agreed  that there  had  been  deliberation                                                               
about  the  organization of  the  committee,  as well  as  future                                                               
fiscal policy,  which had included  an acknowledgment  that there                                                               
was   not  a   preparedness   to  publicly   handle  any   fiscal                                                               
emergencies.  Referring to the  discussion of ways to educate the                                                               
public on the  revenues and expenditures of the  State of Alaska,                                                               
he shared  that these discussions  had led to the  conditions for                                                               
RFP 540.   He reflected that other discussions  that day included                                                               
the funding of Alaska's government,  setting priorities for state                                                               
spending,  priorities for  education, public  safety, and  public                                                               
health and  welfare as listed  in the Alaska  State Constitution,                                                               
and the history for the formation of HFPY.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
12:17:05 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH  expressed  her agreement  with  Representative                                                               
Tuck.   She  referenced the  two aforementioned  issues, (1)  had                                                               
there been  a violation of the  open meeting statute and  (2) had                                                               
there been a fair process with the offering of RFP 540.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
12:17:51 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
TINA   STRONG,    Procurement   Officer,    Supply,   Legislative                                                               
Administrative  Services, Legislative  Affairs Agency,  described                                                               
the RFP  process, referring to  a handout entitled,  "Request for                                                               
Proposals (RFP)  Process." [Included  in members' packets.]   She                                                               
called attention to  the check list for the RFP  process and read                                                               
from  the  pre-RFP  activities  list:    identify  need,  perform                                                               
initial study, estimate budget,  secure approval for solicitation                                                               
of the project,  and secure approval for funding not  to exceed a                                                               
certain dollar amount.   She stated that once  all approvals were                                                               
received,  the  RFP  activities  would   begin.    This  was  all                                                               
confidential until an  award had been made to  prevent any unfair                                                               
advantage  for  any  bidder.   She  listed  the  RFP  Activities:                                                               
identify an  RFP team to  ascertain the project overview  and the                                                               
project  schedule, develop  evaluation  criteria,  write the  RFP                                                               
specifications, review the  finished RFP, and approve  the RFP to                                                               
be issued.   She explained that, also during  the RFP Activities,                                                               
a Proposal Evaluation Committee (PEC)  would be selected, and the                                                               
RFP would be  advertised.  She specified that the  RFP was issued                                                               
for  a  21 day  period,  during  which  time the  proposals  were                                                               
submitted.    At the  end  of  this  period, the  proposals  were                                                               
evaluated by the PEC, requests  for clarifications were issued to                                                               
the offerors, the  evaluation criteria was used by the  PEC for a                                                               
rating, and  an award was extended  to the winning offeror.   She                                                               
noted that an  approval for necessary funding  would be requested                                                               
at this time.  She stated that  a Notice of Intent to Award would                                                               
be issued,  along with a  10 day protest  period.  If  there were                                                               
not  any protests,  a  contract  would be  drafted,  a Notice  to                                                               
Proceed  would be  issued, the  contract would  be executed,  and                                                               
contract work would begin.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
12:21:35 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON asked if  committee meetings for the RFP                                                               
process had to be publicly noticed.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
12:21:47 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. STRONG, in response, explained  that, as her expertise was in                                                               
the RFP  procurement, most of  her work  was with a  RFP drafting                                                               
team and that process was confidential.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
12:22:18 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI  asked when the  process for RFP  540 had                                                               
begun.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
12:22:37 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  STRONG, in  response to  Representative Kawasaki,  said that                                                               
after the  House Finance  Committee had  approved the  project on                                                               
April  17, 2011,  she  was  contacted by  Ms.  Pierre to  discuss                                                               
initiation of the  RFP process.  She relayed that  she had worked                                                               
with the offices of Representatives  Austerman and Fairclough, as                                                               
well as Legislative Legal Counsel, to  draft the RFP, and that it                                                               
was  offered for  21 days  beginning  on September  14, 2011  and                                                               
closing  on  October  6.     After  closing,  the  committee  had                                                               
evaluated the proposals for 28  days before making its selection,                                                               
and  then followed  this with  the 10  day protest  period.   She                                                               
declared  that the  entire  process had  extended  over an  eight                                                               
month span.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
12:24:17 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH  opened  discussion  to  the  committee.    She                                                               
declared  that Doug  Gardner, Director  of Legislative  Legal and                                                               
Research Services,  had been  present during  conversations after                                                               
receipt  of  the  first  letter  regarding  violations,  and  had                                                               
expressed his  agreement that the  process had been  followed and                                                               
that RFPs  were confidential.   She relayed that Mr.  Gardner had                                                               
declared there  to be ambiguity  in [Legislative]  Uniform [Rule]                                                               
23, and  had suggested  that she review  this rule  regarding the                                                               
open meetings  act.   She stated that  after reviewing  the rule,                                                               
she had  contacted the house  leadership sharing her  belief that                                                               
an ambiguity existed for  scheduling subcommittee meetings during                                                               
the interim.   She explained that  she had then sent  a letter to                                                               
the Chair  of the House Rules  Standing Committee [Representative                                                               
Johnson]  outlining  her  finding  for  this  ambiguity  and  her                                                               
subsequent actions.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
12:25:39 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK, clarifying that  the House Special Committee                                                               
on Fiscal  Policy was not  a subcommittee, opined that,  as there                                                               
were  different   [Legislative  Uniform]  Rules  for   a  special                                                               
committee and a subcommittee, this  had caused the confusion.  He                                                               
proposed that  a clarification  for HFPY  as a  special committee                                                               
would resolve this.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
12:26:37 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH returned  attention to the letters  that she had                                                               
received.  She stated that the  first letter had been received on                                                               
January 25,  2012, and  was followed  by two  more letters.   She                                                               
stipulated  that it  was the  third letter  which had  instigated                                                               
this  meeting.   She  offered  her  belief  that, as  the  Select                                                               
Committee on  Legislative Ethics  had been notified  of questions                                                               
regarding RFP  540, the process  had become confidential  and she                                                               
should not  contact the  other committee  members.   She detailed                                                               
that should  there be  any violation  of the  RFP process  or the                                                               
[Legislative Uniform Rules], the  Select Committee on Legislative                                                               
Ethics would review the project,  interview each person involved,                                                               
and determine if  there was a violation.  She  confirmed that, as                                                               
the  reporter  who had  contacted  her  was  in possession  of  a                                                               
document   labeled  confidential,   this  had   precipitated  her                                                               
agreement to an  interview with the reporter,  and her subsequent                                                               
contact with  Ms. Anderson, Ethics Committee  Administrator.  She                                                               
shared that  she had asked  if she would  be in violation  if she                                                               
disclosed any formal documents that  she currently possessed, and                                                               
that Ms. Anderson had responded  that, as no formal complaint had                                                               
been  filed, there  was  not  any violation.    She declared  the                                                               
process for  RFP 540 to be  complete, intact, and valid,  with no                                                               
unfair practice, and no outside  development.  She confirmed that                                                               
she had nothing  to hide regarding the process,  and she accepted                                                               
responsibility for any violation.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
12:28:53 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   KAWASAKI   asked   if  a   representative   from                                                               
Legislative Legal  and Research Services was  available to answer                                                               
questions.    He   asked  for  an  opinion,   pertaining  to  the                                                               
allegation of  a violation for  the scheduling of  open meetings,                                                               
whether there was "exposure ... from  a person who is not awarded                                                               
that particular RFP, under these circumstances."                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
12:30:14 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH cited that any  legal advice would necessitate a                                                               
motion  to move  to Executive  Session  in order  to protect  the                                                               
process for RFPs.   She declared her desire "to  stay in the open                                                               
and on the record on this issue."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
12:30:25 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DOUG  GARDNER,  Director,  Office of  the  Director,  Legislative                                                               
Legal  and Research  Services,  offered  a hypothetical,  general                                                               
response  to allow  this discussion  to be  conducted outside  of                                                               
Executive Session.   He declared that "the  open meeting statute,                                                               
per  se, doesn't  apply to  the legislature  anymore, there  were                                                               
changes made..."   He offered  his belief that these  changes had                                                               
occurred in  2004-5 with  a change to  the statute  applicable to                                                               
open meetings for  the executive branch with  relationship to the                                                               
legislature.   He declared this to  be an important point,  as it                                                               
was  assumed  that the  Select  Committee  on Legislative  Ethics                                                               
would  provide  guidance  for  "what types  of  notice  would  be                                                               
required."     He   opined  that   this  did   not  happen,   and                                                               
subsequently, changes were  made to AS 24.60.037,  and this "left                                                               
somewhat of  a vacuum as  far as  what notice is  required during                                                               
the  interim."    He  affirmed   that  the  requirement  for  the                                                               
timelines  of notification  was  waived  occasionally during  the                                                               
session.   He  referred  to Legislative  Uniform Rules  23(e)(3),                                                               
"Committee Meetings,"  which declared  that the session  rules as                                                               
outlined  in Legislative  Uniform Rules  23(a)-(d) did  not apply                                                               
during the  interim.  He offered  his belief that his  office had                                                               
advised, since 2006, that "notice  should be reasonable under the                                                               
circumstances."  He paraphrased AS  24.60.037(a):  "meetings of a                                                               
legislative  body need  to be  open to  the public  in accordance                                                               
with the  open meetings guidelines established  in this section."                                                               
He pointed out  that, as this section  referenced the Legislative                                                               
Uniform  Rules, it  created an  ambiguity.   He confirmed  that a                                                               
legislator was  not required  to participate  in a  meeting which                                                               
was in violation  of these guidelines, and could  feel an ethical                                                               
obligation  to not  participate.   He offered  his belief  that a                                                               
person could read Legislative Uniform  Rule 23(e), and, depending                                                               
on their  experience and awareness  of the issue, decide  that it                                                               
was not  necessary to provide notice  of an interim meeting.   He                                                               
concluded  that  there  was  an ambiguity  between  the  duty  to                                                               
provide notice to  a meeting during the interim, and  the duty of                                                               
an individual  legislator to  attend a  meeting of  a legislative                                                               
body which  was not noticed.   He  offered a definition  for open                                                               
notice during  the interim  to be  "some reasonable  notice under                                                               
the circumstances in the interim."                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
12:35:30 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KAWASAKI asked  which  prevailed if  there was  a                                                               
conflict   between  Legislative   Uniform  Rule   23(e)  and   AS                                                               
24.60.037(a).                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GARDNER  replied  that AS  24.60.037(e)  declared  that  the                                                               
Legislative  Uniform Rules  would prevail  in any  conflict.   He                                                               
offered his belief  that there would be a benefit  to clarify the                                                               
requirements  for notice  to a  meeting during  the interim.   He                                                               
shared that  Legislative Legal and Research  Services had offered                                                               
the guideline of "reasonable under the circumstances."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
12:36:54 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK,  directing attention to  Legislative Uniform                                                               
Rules 23(a)-(d),  stated that  this referred  to "how  to notice,                                                               
that's not  what gets  noticed."   He asked  for direction  as to                                                               
what should be noticed.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. GARDNER, in response, directed  attention to AS 24.60.037(b),                                                               
and paraphrased:   "that a meeting occurs when a  majority of the                                                               
members  of   the  legislative  body  are   present  and  action,                                                               
including voting,  is or could be  taken or if a  primary purpose                                                               
of the  meeting is  discussion of  legislation or  state policy."                                                               
He assessed  that this statute dictated  that Legislative Uniform                                                               
Rule  23 takes  effect for  any meeting  open to  the public  and                                                               
other members of the legislature.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
12:38:01 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK,  stating  that  Legislative  Uniform  Rules                                                               
23(a)-(d) expressly  demonstrated how a meeting  would be noticed                                                               
and that 23(e)  determines special conditions for  how to notice,                                                               
asked to  clarify that 23(e)  did not eliminate the  necessity to                                                               
notice.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. GARDNER agreed that Legislative  Uniform Rules 23(a)-(d) were                                                               
a mechanism,  and that  23(e) stated that  the mechanism  was not                                                               
applicable during  the interim.   He conveyed that 23(e)  did not                                                               
provide any more clarity for notice during interim.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
12:39:33 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK  questioned  whether  23(e)  eliminated  the                                                               
responsibility for any committee to  notify the public during the                                                               
interim.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GARDNER,  in  response, confirmed  that  23(e)  stated  that                                                               
23(a)-(d) did  not apply during  the interim, but that  23(e) did                                                               
not eliminate a notice requirement  during the interim because of                                                               
the requirements in AS 24.60.037(b).                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK  asked  to  clarify  that  notification  was                                                               
required during interim, although 23(a)-(d) were not obligatory.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GARDNER declared  that this  was now  an interpretation  for                                                               
what was reasonable notice under the circumstances.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
12:40:33 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH declared this to  be "a perfect demonstration of                                                               
the  ambiguity  that remains."    She  asked  if there  were  any                                                               
further questions regarding  the process or the  fairness for RFP                                                               
540.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
12:40:58 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK expressed  a concern  for his  perception of                                                               
HFPY as a subcommittee of the House Finance Committee.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH pointed out that  HFPY had been established as a                                                               
special committee,  and then became  a RFP team.   She determined                                                               
that  this allowed  other members  of the  public to  be present.                                                               
She said:   "if I wouldn't  have included all of  you, I wouldn't                                                               
be here  today.  I  was trying to  be inclusive so  that everyone                                                               
here, around  the table, would have  skin in the game  to want to                                                               
see a  fiscal policy  conversation go  forward, but  because that                                                               
happened, there  was a majority  ... of the special  committee of                                                               
the  House  Fiscal  Policy  that  created  the  problem  and  the                                                               
ambiguity  in  Rule   23."    She  asked  Mr.   Gardner  for  any                                                               
clarification.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
12:42:05 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. GARDNER, in response, stated that the rules were clear:                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     when  you have  more than  a majority  of a  committee,                                                                    
     that you're in that situation.   I also would point out                                                                    
     however, the rules do cover  subcommittees, and if this                                                                    
     body had,  this committee  had created  a subcommittee,                                                                    
     it still would have had  to have been reasonable notice                                                                    
     under   the   circumstances.     Nevertheless,   you're                                                                    
     correct,  the  rule  makes  it   clear  that  when  the                                                                    
     majority  of   a  committee  meets,  that   the  notice                                                                    
     requirement, the open meeting requirement is there.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
12:42:39 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK declared that  his questions were intended to                                                               
"help us all  in knowing how to move forward."   He confirmed his                                                               
desire to  ensure that  the public  perception was  also correct.                                                               
He admitted that two of  the aforementioned letters had initiated                                                               
his concern about the need to  publicly notice a meeting, even if                                                               
this was for an executive  session.  He questioned the difference                                                               
between  a confidential  meeting and  an executive  session.   He                                                               
pointed out that  other legislative members could  be included in                                                               
an  executive session.   He  opined that  although the  committee                                                               
would have had  the same results, he had concerns  for the public                                                               
perception  of the  HFPY  meetings.   He  established that  these                                                               
answers to the committee questions  would now allow the committee                                                               
to move forward.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
12:44:25 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON, in  reference to  the fairness  of the                                                               
RFP,  stated that  the process  was clear  and the  committee had                                                               
specifically  discussed  its  role  in  grading  the  RFP.    She                                                               
observed that  the committee had acted  as a team during  the RFP                                                               
process,  and she  expressed  her  agreement with  Representative                                                               
Tuck that the results would have been the same.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
12:45:40 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH asked if there were any other comments.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
12:45:48 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Special Committee on Fiscal Policy meeting was adjourned at                                                                     
12:45 p.m.                                                                                                                      

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